Nicci’s Narrative: Today I’m excited to be interviewing a fellow writer turned friend Dr. Fredric C. Hartman. Back in December of 2018 I was lucky enough to come across a revised edition of his book “The Breakthrough in Two Acts: Breaking the Spells of Painful Emotions and Finding the Calm in the Present Moment” Another revised edition, “The Breakthrough In Two Acts: A Love Song to Humanity” which came out just this past July focuses a bit more on how to coexist alongside an epidemic. It is currently available on amazon and after reading his current edition, I was continually impressed by his innate ability to reach through the pages into the souls of his readers. But I have a feeling that his patients experience that same heard and seen feeling as well during their sessions.
Nicci’s Narrative: I have to tell you Fred, “The Breakthrough in Two Acts,” is one of the most fascinating books that I’ve read in quite some time. The idea of Human Consciousness portraying a living, breathing, communicating character is something of an innovation to me. Did the idea for your book come to you all at once, or did bits and pieces come to you over the years?
Dr. Fredric C. Hartman: I’m touched. It took two years of writing dribble for the idea to coalesce. I started the book long ago, the moment 1999 became 2000. I wrote every morning for an hour. I had outlines, glimmers of how I’d like it. I forced myself to write in the straightforward self-help mode, but it was coming out lifeless month after month. I threw out hundreds of pages. And then there was that moment, after two years, when I had had it with the way the book was going and then suddenly the tone of voice that was right for me just erupted onto the scene. All the crap had to come first to prepare myself for finding what worked for me. All the chapter titles came out in a few sittings. If you read the titles alone, they have a bursting, snarky, beseeching tone to them. It’s a bit out there, actually. I broke through some kind of inhibition. I was loving, passionate, unself-conscious. This tone allowed me to channel everything I know about all the work I’d done.
Nicci’s Narrative: You definitely get that feeling reading the book. That some type of heightened self has been reached…I can’t remember if I ever told you this but, many moons ago, I considered a psychology major, but dropped out of it when things got a bit too hard for me. I’ve always wondered how that type of work might change an individual. Do you see life any differently, or experience emotions differently after seeing life through so many different people’s minds and eyes? Do you think you’d be mostly the same person you are today if you had picked a totally different profession?
Dr. Fredric C. Hartman: Oh, I would definitely be a quite different person if I hadn’t become a psychologist in private practice. I would say I’ve completed well over 100,000 45-minute sessions in 30 years with a couple of thousand people. I try to think about another walk of life acquiring that much experience and I startle myself. Let’s say a pilot with 75,000 clock hours of flying. That pilot would have quite a knowledge of the skies and all the variations of barometric pressure and cloud cover. S(he) would be a creature of the air. Or if I was, say, an astronaut, the amount of time doing therapy would translate into 8 ½ full years in space. No one has done that yet. It remains to be seen how that might change a person. I don’t know what else to compare it with. When I hear a voice now, or see a facial expression I practically see a brain. My intuition has been conditioned by all the “flight time.” It has definitely altered me. And yet it’s endlessly mysterious to me as it was when I began.
Nicci’s Narrative: I’m a mystery to myself on most days. Figuring out OTHER people, I wouldn’t even know where or how to begin, but it’s a comfort knowing that there are good people, like you Fred, trying to help us figure out ourselves along the way. There have been a few editions of “The Breakthrough in Two Acts,” what’s that journey been like for you over the years?
Dr. Fredric C. Hartman: It’s been fascinating. I think there might have been about 15 editions since it was published in 2007. Every August I would pick it up and read it and find myself enchanted enough to revise it once more and then get a new copyright date in January of the new year. And there were so many errors (maybe still are). Each year I also updated scientific facts. When I started the book the estimate of the number of galaxies in the universe was a couple of billion; now it’s two trillion. And other new facts were updated like finding water on the Moon, and the respective ages of consciousness (300,000 years) and the limbic system (150 million years) (David and Goliath). And with each revision I would also be subtly feeding into the book the prevailing mood in our American culture at the time. This last revision, though, feels like it’s done. It feels like the story of the craziness of the limbic system and the struggle our Consciousness has with it couldn’t be better highlighted than by the pandemic, the political, social and the economic turmoil.
Nicci’s Narrative: It’s certainly not the 2020 any of us expected. But moving on to brighter thoughts, what compelled you to write the book? And did it help you as a person to take this book on as an undertaking?
Dr. Fredric C. Hartman: I’ve always had a very difficult time with language, with reading and writing (and still do). I probably had, as a child, some sort of language disability. That’s why I took all science courses in college. You only had to keep reading the same textbook over and over so it didn’t scare me as much as taking literature or history courses. And strangely, I always had this fascination with words and writing but was deprived of having any facility with them. So, when I believed I had something significant to say, I knew I would have to ram my way into the language and so I took on the project of writing a book at last. Writing the book helped me overcome a weakness. So, this was one source of inspiration for the book. Another was my brother, Doug. He took his life at 24 (severe bipolar disorder) precisely when I was finishing my doctorate in clinical psychology in 1986. What ironies prevailed. We were the best of friends and loved being together. I miss him very much. The feeling in my book, the aim in it for a far-reaching view of humanity, civilization, and the universe—the fun, the playfulness, the ridiculousness in the book—harkens me back to the way he and I would talk and carry on with each other. That writing voice that erupted all of a sudden after two years of dead ends was actually a kind of resurrection of my relationship with Doug. I didn’t know this then. I believe now that writing the book and revising it so many times was a way for me to be with him again, to keep his presence alive. And I also believe that this book, working on it over and over, was a way to come to terms with his suicide and my loss of him. And of course, another immediate source of inspiration for the book was to heal, one and all.
Nicci’s Narrative: You’ll have to start a new book to continue his spirit on in book form. It’s really special what you’ve done to keep him more alive. I’ll have to re-read the book again, as much meaning as it played for me the first time, I imagine it’ll be even better the second time now having that knowledge. I also find it hard to believe that you still have a hard time with language and writing. You speak so eloquently, like you’re a complete master of it. I’m a bit in awe of your ability…but before I get too off track… speaking of possible new books, are there any books that are on the horizon that you would like to tell us about?
Dr. Fredric C. Hartman: There are a few ideas, maybe a memoir about being a psychologist, maybe another book about the struggle between Consciousness and the limbic system. But now I know I’ll need to journey through a desert maybe two years before the voice I need might emerge or erupt again. Or maybe it will come sooner. Or maybe it will never come again.
Nicci’s Narrative: Well I hope that’s not the case. The memoir of a psychologist is a book just about everyone would be chomping at the bit just to get a look at. But other than new possible books, is there anything else we should be looking out for, perhaps a podcast or blog that you’re excited about?
Dr. Fredric C. Hartman: Yes! Skyboat Media (https://skyboatmedia.com/ ) is preparing the audiobook. Will be ready in December. I’m so excited because I love the ideas Stefan Rudnicki, had about it. He was an actor and the book is dramatic, so he loved the challenge. I can’t wait for his rendering. Actually, I alternate between thinking, on the one hand, that my book is quite ridiculous with its strange design and humor. On the other hand, I think it does express some things about being human and the crisis humanity is now in and my take about how to bring on an urgently needed paradigm shift in our species in this atomic age.
Nicci’s Narrative: That’s such a smart move to make, creating an audio version as another option for readers, since a lot of people don’t have the time to read. Although COVID has changed that a bit for some. I can’t wait to hear how it sounds out loud though, I’m really excited for you. Having an actor voice your work must be a bit of a thrill all on its own. But thinking on actors it reminded me of something I wanted to ask you. Although I almost hate to ask it. But because I don’t know any other psychologists outside of the ones that I’ve had over the years, I have to get your opinion, if it’s something you are familiar with. Do you think that someone in the profession of psychology, (be they a psychologist or psychiatrist,) would truly be able to have such a psychotic break that they would become a menacing, thrill-seeking character like Harley Quinn, from the DC comics? Or is that just great for selling comic books and movie tickets? I know it’s such a ridiculous question, but if you have any opinion at all I’d love to hear it.
Dr. Fredric C. Hartman: Not a ridiculous question considering the bewildering mysteries of human nature and the awful traumas and dysfunction that a psychologist faces. But I think it’s unlikely to happen. Perhaps a psychologist could undergo a major collapse and disintegrate into psychosis if the psychosocial stress was great enough, or perhaps an old trauma was reactivated. But it’s not likely to look as florid as Harley Quinn, or Hannibal Lecter. Usually a psychologist’s stress tolerance is tested early in his or her career. Most psychologists (I wish all) were in their own treatment for years either before or during their careers, which helps enormously to weather the experiences of being a psychologist.
Nicci’s Narrative: That makes a lot of sense. It’s good to know that most psychologists have that soft place to land as well. Speaking of soft places to land, that place of serenity and calm for a lot of people is when they are in their favorite chair or whatever corner with a book under their nose. And given that we are still in the COVID “season,” do you have any other fictional or non-fictional authors that you enjoy reading, that might help readers kill some time at home?
Dr. Fredric C. Hartman: I’ve always enjoyed science, particularly, astronomy and cosmology. I’ve returned to some authors from long ago: Loren Eiseley, Carl Sagan, Jacob Bronowski. They have that soaring, uplifting way of looking at humanity and the universe. It’s been comforting in these times. As a Baby Boomer who witnessed the excellence of the space program in the 1960s, I am intrigued by the renewal of space exploration. The quest to go to the Moon pervaded the 60s. Someone not living through that time probably wouldn’t know how it felt, especially for a boy in those days. There were 25-30 human space flights throughout those years. Every 4-5 months a major liftoff occurred. It left a well-rehearsed soaring feeling in my young soul.
Nicci’s Narrative: Wow, I had no idea there were that many space flights. I vaguely remember the horror of The Challenger explosion when I was 4 years old, and with that as my first experience with one it always sends a bit of a chill up my spine when they plan another takeoff…This question that I have for you is kind of off the wall, if you could ask one question of anyone, whether it be a celebrity, or Hindu God, living or not, what would that question be, and how do you think they would answer it?
Dr. Fredric C. Hartman: Yes, I would like to know more about the nature of Time. Would be nice to hear Newton chat about it, or Einstein, or Neils Bohr, or Werner Heisenberg, or an ancient astrologer, or an extraterrestrial. As a psychologist, time is just everything. The clock is my boss. And there’s ancestral time; and prehistoric time stored in and designing our brains; there’s the present moment of time that contains everything there is. It’s this silent thing like no other that moves in one direction through our beings and through history, leaving strange little traces of itself in our brains called memories. I have lots of questions about Time.
Nicci’s Narrative: And my last question. What is one question that no one has asked you that you would like to let people know?
Dr. Fredric C. Hartman: What has it been like for you to be a psychologist for over 30 years? It’s a very long sweet story.
Nicci’s Narrative: What an amazing question AND answer! Thank you again so much for your time Fred. It’s always good to hear from you. And I hope that we can continue to have you on the blog, for when new projects or adventures come up for you.
